In 2 Samuel 21, we read of the tragic repercussion that followed when King Saul didnt honor the covenant and murdered some Gibeonites. Therefore, this curse goes down until the gene pool is able to kick it outthree or four generations. Go coach! And it would have been done quickly and easily. He received good marks in Scripture. And after that God heeded the prayer for the land. (Mark 6:20). The Israelite version was a whole lot less absolute. Would it be a good alliance to have with these people from far away?". Where are they from? He was not thinking spiritually. It is in II Samuel 21. He is able to judge justly. He did not perform any miracle, or any other thing to show that He was happy with the way that things turned out. He committed colossal sins that whole nations would be held in contempt for. Saul and the heir to the throne, his son, Jonathan, were killed in a battle with the Philistines, and by popular acclamation, David became the King of Israel. And the king said, "I will give them.". He had to sit there and judge people with all the little things they constantly brought up to him that seemed to need his decision on. Now that we have established that there was a horrible massacre at some point in the past, remember there was sin, and there was a crime committed. [And the answer is] Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live. There is less bloodshed, and there will not be much opportunity like in Gentile nations for these blood feuds to last for years and generations. How far away was Gilgal from Gibeon? The scriptures are not very definitive as to why. When we read the history of skirmishes and battles between the Gibeonites and Israelites we get a This incident appears in time sequence toward the end of his life. Has the book of Amos been fulfilled or is it a reference to end times? So he did to them, and delivered them out of the hand of the children of Israel, so that they did not kill them. Saul's bones are still in Jabesh-Gilead. He needed God to forgive him. God affirms that the famine is punishment for Sauls massacre of the Gibeonites, who had been protected by a treaty since the Israelites first invaded the Promised Land ( Joshua 9:127 ). They do what their flesh tells them to dowhat Satan inspires them to want to doand they do it. One is God's judgment upon the actual person for the actual sin; the other is God's punishment that He has automatically put into the law that allows the effects to last for a few generations. God is just. He just let the natural cycles take their course. by LeRoy Gardenier He attempted the genocide of This is a major reason why the church of God does not subscribe to the traditional doctrine of "The Fall of Man." 1. Then we have the explanations of which we just went over. God isn't very pleased that these bodies have been exposed for six months against His law.". Therefore, your kingdom is taken away and given to another. Eisenhower was still in office. Saul had four sons. * Jonathanhe befriended David, died with Saul on Mount Gilboa * Abinadabdied with Saul on Mount Gilboa * Malchishuadied with We are not finished with that yet, because, who were the Gibeonites? That would be such a carnal thing to dojust let the Gibeonites kill seven of Saul's kids who could claim the Israelite throne and get them out of the way. Israel plagued by allowing the deception 1. There were big problems, and one of them was the consequences and effects of Saul and his bloodthirsty house. He came at this as though he were guilty with Saul; that all Israelites were guilty with Saul and his house. And you shall take no ransom for him who has fled to his city of refuge, that he may return to dwell in the land before the death of the priest [no way of getting out of that either; he has to serve his whole time]. Report, September 02 2013 Something is wrong, David. Joshua 9:22-24 Then Joshua called for them, and he spoke to them, saying, "Why have you deceived us, saying, 'We are very far from you,' when you dwell near us? They are two separate things. (Now the Gibeonites were not Israelites, but a remnant of the Amorites. This was a long time ago. Web16 And it happened at the end of three days, after they had made a covenant with them, that they heard that they were their neighbors who dwelt near them. ", God answered immediately, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house. Back in I Samuel 15, Saul was told by God through Samuel to go up against the Amalekites, and to destroy everything in sight, do not spare anything; exterminate them. Throughout the Scriptures warnings of spiritual dangers are signaled by the flash cards of attention getting words like: "Take heed" or "Consider". WebSaul, Israel's first king thought he knew better than God. The "Man of Steel" is just too perfect, too smart, and too invincible. WebThe designation Nethinim is derived from the Hebrew verb natan ("to give over"), which can mean devoting someone to cultic service. Only after three days did they discover that their "far-distant" allies were really next-door neighbors! It said earlier that they wanted them to be hung before the Lord in Gibeah of Saul. Please ensure your answer MEETS all our guidelines. He did not do anything to directly intervene. And David was told what Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, the concubine of Saul, had done. The cities of refuge were designed (among other things) to stop and prevent these feuds from happening. They were going to come in there and just exterminate. You had only black and white television if you had television. Another group, however, argues that as God's anointed king, WebThe LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. Lets be clear from the very beginning, David was kind to Mephibosheth for his father Jonathans sake (2 Samuel 9:1). Mephibosheth was only five ye Evidently, this is what Saul and most of his family was like, except Jonathan. They are going to cause problems. That is that he could have gone along with the Gibeonite's demands in order to get rid of seven possible contenders for his throne. The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart, and saves such as have a contrite spirit. Israel was totally swindled and bamboozled. It looks to me like he tried to work out a political solution rather than a righteous one. Fifty years ago was 1957. Joshua 9:14-16 Then the men of Israel took some of their provisions; but they did not ask counsel of the LORD. In some ways, the story centers around covenants or treaties, one made between Israel and the Gibeonites in Joshua 9, another between Jonathan and David in 1 Sam. WebSaul slew the Gibeonites, not simply as the son of Kish, but as the king of Israel, and therefore involved all Israel with him in the violation of the national oath; and hence, until the evil should be put away by the execution of the immediate offender or his representatives, all Israel must suffer. And, it certainly does not record that David took this to God for His solution to it. How many wars were fought? It provides the cities of refuge where he could go serve a type of prison sentenceif it was an accidental murderuntil the high priest died. Is that what happened?" There are references to the Lord, but they are not references in a spiritual sense. Even so, maybe there were even worse problems, perhaps, and David was blind to them for three years. We do know the Gibeonites were cutters of wood and drawers of water for the altar of God the tabernacle was at Gibeon. King David came at it from a position of weakness, not of one who knew God's law and could answer these people from spiritual strength. Community answers are sorted based on votes. It was certainly alive and well in Israel. He was the king. Go back with me to Deuteronomy 7 and see the instruction that God gave to Israel about how to deal with these kinds of people. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he. And as the one righteous person in the whole nation, he could have cried out, God would have heard, and God would have saved. How did the spirit of God move upon the face of the waters in Genesis 1:2? Saul, after having disqualified himself from being king, sought to ingratiate himself with God by killing Canaanites, including an unrecorded massacre of Gibeonites. The words "thirty" and "forty" are not in the original Hebrew. Now, if we would go through II Samuel 24, that even though David made a huge mistake in chapter 21, he did it right in chapter 24. This does not make any sense. The Gibeonites presented themselves to the invading Israelites, not as nearby neighbors, but as distant foreigners who lived in a far-off land. Those who believe that they can outsmart, outflank or in any way outmaneuver our Enemy through cerebral strategies are doomed to the slavery and destruction heaped upon Saul and the Gibeonites. They may not have been involved at all, depending on how early in Saul's reign this event took place. We have our own sins to pay for; we do not pay for theirs. Let's see what's in our bag of tricks. Skeptic turned believer, Catholic, father of 3, ABC/DTS graduate, guitar music ministry Baptist church. The Jewish Encyclopedia asserts that one group of rabbis felt that Saul's punishment at God's hands is a sign of his weak moral character whose only virtue was being tall and handsome. They were a group of Amorites. II Samuel 21:1-14 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. It would have been the answer. In other words, we want them to be just like us. In Rizpahs case, her husband, King Saul, broke his promise that the Israelites would spare the Gibeonites in battle; he ordered the Israelites to annihilate them. What would be some verses from the Bible to save a marriage? Why was David so loyal to Saul after everything Saul had done to him? I think that this was a test from God, and David failed spectacularly, except in keeping his promise to Jonathan. There is not much wiggle room in all this. It is his sin. See? Saul, Israel's first king thought he knew better than God. So, it is very likely that these men were murdered both as retribution and as sacrifices to some pagan god to spite the God of the Bible, and therefore, Israel. One other thing: Samuel said that God is not going to go back on His word. It is the time of the beginning of the barley harvest. WebThe Philistines decided not to attack D. God gave Saul three options to choose from as he went out against the Philistines. It is not there in the Scriptures. Wherever he turned, he harassed them. With all the recent rebellions, he was probably worried that his alliances were going to fail, because he may have appeared to weaken. And the Gibeonites said to him, "We will have no silver or gold from Saul or from his house, nor shall you kill any man in Israel for us." We would like to make a covenant with you.". I dont think it was a matter of God allowing the Gibeonites to put to death Sauls sons. He was tired of life, tired of war, tired of all the politics, tired of all the rebellion, tired of Joab. I think he was looking at Adonijah and Solomon, and seeing the positioning for the throne, and he just wanted to throw up his handsflee like some bird (Psalm 139). THE BATTLES OF THE LORD Then there are things of degeneracy. He became jealous and he went wacko, basically. And the Lord said, "There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibeonites to death. There was a great deal of turmoil in Israel leading up to this time. I am putting this all together from history. You do not know. God spared them as a people, but His nation condemned them to endless servitude. They made their dust-covered clothes to look worn and ragged as if they had been on the road for many days, even months. Perhaps if I go and kill all the Gibeonites like Joshua was supposed to do, maybe God will let me back into the chair.". The Bible does not provide us the details of this killing. There is nothing to give you any indication that God was involved in anything except the faminetrying to teach David a lesson. SERIES INTRODUCTION However, if they did not participate, they are not going to be given a black mark by God for something that they did not do. How many rebellions were there? They were probably innocent of this particular crime. But, very few people can relate to sinless perfection. It is after Absalom's rebellion. He keeps his word even to his own disadvantage and does not change it [for his own benefit] (Psalm 15:1, 4; AMP). So he said, "Whatever you say, I will do for you." And, that was that. You shall make no covenant with them nor show mercy to them. So they performed all that the king commanded. But talk about your flawed heroes! Hebrews 11 exhibits a whole chapter of men and women just like us who, despite their humanity and frequent foibles, fought the good fight of faith and were victorious in the end through the grace of God. And he gathered an army and attacked the Amalekites, and delivered Israel from the hands of those who plundered them. Asked August 31 2013 If we were reading this quickly, and not really thinking about it, and not understanding God's own character, we might think that this says that God allows the guilt of sin to pass down three or four generations. And we bear the guilt with them for that. He could have done several things differently, perhaps giving the Gibeonites their freedom as a way to repay them. It causes a problem in the way that the next generation is formed. There is another thing that needs to be thrown out there as a possible scenario, and this would have been the very worst and lowest that David could have sunk to. but Saul had sought to kill them in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah. King Saul exhibited that hubris, that overweening pride in his own decisions and that unfounded confidence in his own good judgment that he brought certain and lasting disaster upon his own dynasty. Who are the twenty four elders that John foresaw? Deceit and delusion are powerful spiritual weapons of destruction but they pale in potency compared to the creative and edifying Word of God come alive by faith in believers' hearts! WebA three years' famine in the days of David was attributed to God's anger at the unexpiated crime of Saul in slaying the Gibeonites. Then, they went after Jericho, and it fell. The Gibeonites joined in the fight against the Philistines B. They quailed at what they heard that Joshua and Israel had done at Jericho and Ai. Jeiel, Sauls great-grandfather, was the progenitor of the Gibeonites ( 1 Chron 8:29-33; 9:35-39 ), so Saul slaughtered his own relatives! His anger at the Deuteronomy 32:4. "We don't want any money, for sure not Saul's money. However, if he did not lie in wait, but God delivered him into his hand, then I will appoint for you a place where he may flee.". ( v.1 ) So God sent a famine to punish a kingdom for something that a former king supposedly did. Web2 Samuel 21:2 indicates that King Saul pursued the Gibeonites and sought to kill them off "in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah" (2 Samuel 21:5). What have you been thinking about?". Does the Bible encourage the practice of Lent? That is basically how it was. This is in the second commandment. Report I don't know a great deal about this particular segment of those biblical people called the Hittites. King Saul later broke the treaty that Joshua had signed and attacked the Gibeonites. Later still, during the time of King David, a famine occurred in Israel. When David asked the Lord about the famine, God said, It is on account of Saul and his blood-stained house; it is because he put the Gibeonites to death (2 Samuel 21:1). God is warning here that sin has consequences. They fell for it hook, line, and sinker, and they were stuck. Jew or gentile? The Gibeonites presented themselves to the invading Israelites, not as nearby neighbors, but as distant foreigners who lived in a far-off land. David represents usJoe Church Membertrue Christians in a time of spiritual famine, much like what Amos describes in Amos 8:11, with the famine of the word. Why were two of Saul's sons and five of Saul's grandsons killed for a crime they didn't commit? He tried to come up with a compromise, and that was basically, "Whatever you want, you can have." Certainly, after three years you would. Perhaps those first two, Armoni, and Mephibosheth were old enough to have participated in the event. The Bible implicitly hints at something which caused a feud which was settled only by the blood of Sauls descendants. It certainly happened because it says there in verses 1 and 2 that Saul killed a lot of Gibeonites at some point in his reign. He had a body of law that he could have referred back to and come up with a solution. So the king took Armoni and Mephibosheth, the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bore to Saul; and the five sons of Michal [Merabsee margin of most Bibles] the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite; and he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them on the hill before the LORD. The children of Israel gathered and went across the Jordan River, and set up camp at Gilgal. Samuel turns away; Saul grabs at him and only catches his robe, and tears it. If He said that you are out of here, you are out of here. They knew all the things God had stipulated about what they were to do when Israel was going to come into the land. You are no longer fit to be king." How many died in bar-fights? 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